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Post by anonposter on Apr 21, 2013 1:45:38 GMT 9.5
Wouldn't even have to wire the panels themselves, if they are on trainable heliostats they could just use small amounts of explosives to wreck the elevating mechanisms and cause the whole things to topple. We're talking thousands of square kilometres of collector area here, I doubt they could set that up on all of them overnight. Whether the plant's owners know or not is another question, the executives in Europe will just wake up one day to discover that the entire plant security detail has been interned and there are lots of African engineers running around their plants. Given the size of the area that the security detail would have to protect (not necessarily from a government, expect a lot of people to want to steal solar panels, wiring, whatever they can take) it'd probably be sized more like an occupation army. And if they did try to seize them, working out a way to overrun a force defending a power plant without wrecking the power plant would give military men fits. Don't attack the power plant then, instead send warships to blockade their ports and not let anything in (even food, worked on Germany in WWI) along with some air-strikes against their leaders.
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Post by edireland on Apr 21, 2013 3:28:45 GMT 9.5
Wouldn't even have to wire the panels themselves, if they are on trainable heliostats they could just use small amounts of explosives to wreck the elevating mechanisms and cause the whole things to topple. We're talking thousands of square kilometres of collector area here, I doubt they could set that up on all of them overnight. That wouldn't neccesarily have to do it all in one night. But it could easily take 48 hours or more for the European nations to organise any sort of operation to do anything about the fact that someone is rushing around preparing to demolish everything. Given the size of the area that the security detail would have to protect (not necessarily from a government, expect a lot of people to want to steal solar panels, wiring, whatever they can take) it'd probably be sized more like an occupation army. Which would come right up against the political arguments you noted earlier, no african nation is going to let a huge heavily armed force on its soil to guard these panel arrays. And if they did try to seize them, working out a way to overrun a force defending a power plant without wrecking the power plant would give military men fits. Don't attack the power plant then, instead send warships to blockade their ports and not let anything in (even food, worked on Germany in WWI) along with some air-strikes against their leaders. They blockade the Saharan nation's ports.... they cut off the juice. If its the middle of the winter the European nations would probably break first. And if you start going after leaders they could easily start demolishing the panels out of spite. (Even if its a mod of angry civilians running around with sledgehammers or something). Essentially the whole thing is unworkable without a one world government.... or atleast a federal government in Europe and North Africa.
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Post by David B. Benson on Apr 21, 2013 7:35:25 GMT 9.5
Libyans are considering CSP with HVDC to Italy. Just talk so far.
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Post by edireland on Apr 21, 2013 9:59:12 GMT 9.5
Attempting this with the low level civil war that is still going on in Libya is going to be a nightmare. It is likely it will remain just talk for the forseable future.
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Post by Roger Clifton on Apr 21, 2013 12:54:59 GMT 9.5
The way you guys are talking, the Libyans have good reason to suspect energy imperialism. However I suggest that industries would rather migrate from the far end of those strategically vulnerable powerlines to nearer the source of this (miraculously reliable) Saharan solar energy. In such a vision, the coast of North Africa would come to host the current industrial might of Europe, while Europe withered away, struggling with its PV panels in the winter dark. Perhaps then, the Moors would reoccupy Spain, the Algerians would occupy France, the Libyans would occupy Italy and so on.
But it isn't going to get that far. West European heavy industry already demands reliable, cheap power from nearby, whether coal, gas or nuclear. After all, it was to protect security of energy supply that commercial-scale fast neutron reactors were first developed in France, Germany, Britain and Japan.
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Post by sod on Apr 21, 2013 20:31:43 GMT 9.5
Have you folks really started a discussion about the security of PV solar equipment in the case of war?
While you support nuclear power, which can never be secure in such a situation?
That doesn t make any sense!
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Post by anonposter on Apr 21, 2013 22:10:17 GMT 9.5
Have you folks really started a discussion about the security of PV solar equipment in the case of war? Attacking energy infrastructure is a tactic which has been used in war and renewables are not some kind of exception. While you support nuclear power, which can never be secure in such a situation? Let's see now, lots of panels around the desert, too many to adequately guard compared to a small power plant with a containment dome that can withstand a 767 hitting it and which has armed guards on site. Not mention that many SMRs are planning on having the reactor underground. Nuclear is probably better at preventing war, both through weapons that scare the s*** out of the politicians and generals who'd otherwise start wars and through being able to provide everyone with enough energy that they don't have to fight over it.
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Post by edireland on Apr 21, 2013 23:54:10 GMT 9.5
Have you folks really started a discussion about the security of PV solar equipment in the case of war? The security of Europe is an important consideration, and do you really think any future enemy is going to ignore a thousand kilometre long jugular stretching from the power generation "heart" of europe? It renders all defensive planning for Western Europe completely obsolete because we have to defend the Sahara as if it were europe. While you support nuclear power, which can never be secure in such a situation? They are more secure than a field of Photovoltaic panels thousands of kilometres away in territory that could very soon be controlled by the enemy. Deploying all those panels in the Sahara means Europe effectively has to control the Sahara outright, and defend it to the last man. Nuclear reactors can survive significant munitions deployment without catastrophic damage and more to the point..... they would be inside our defensive perimeter.
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