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Post by davidm on Jul 7, 2012 11:03:05 GMT 9.5
Go for it all.  ;D This free swinging declaration takes on virtually everything, including nuclear power, pvs and windmills. Well I guess somebody has to be the cutting edge vanguard of change and Derrick Jensen seems up to the challenge, at least verbally. 
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Post by anonposter on Jul 7, 2012 12:40:50 GMT 9.5
I almost thought that was satire.
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Post by davidm on Jul 7, 2012 14:30:15 GMT 9.5
Well you can't say he doesn't give us specific guidelines.  Hmmm, I'm thinking an add on tax of $2.50 per gallon each year plus heavily subsidized bus service might do it. Consider it war time conditions like the London blitz. |
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Post by davidm on Jul 8, 2012 1:20:54 GMT 9.5
This one is worth a discussion by itself.
Whatever timeline you want to go on and whatever specifics you want to invoke, all the roads to a viable future lead finally to local self-sufficiency, ecological balance and economic sustainability rather than growing ourselves off the cliff. It is one thing we know from history that works.
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Post by anonposter on Jul 8, 2012 2:58:19 GMT 9.5
Well you can't say he doesn't give us specific guidelines. There is consensus among the scientific community that in order to prevent catastrophic climate change beyond what the industrial economy has already set in motion, net carbon emissions must be reduced by 80 percent as soon as possible. Because we wish to continue to live on a habitable planet, we demand a carbon reduction of 20 percent of current emissions per year over the next four years. Hmmm, I'm thinking an add on tax of $2.50 per gallon each year plus heavily subsidized bus service might do it. Consider it war time conditions like the London blitz. That won't even come close to giving you 80% reduction in CO 2 emissions (transportation doesn't account for 80% of emissions). Many European countries have petrol prices of that level (or higher) and whilst they do tend to have better public transport and drive smaller cars (with a lot more diesels) their emissions aren't that much less. Under warlike conditions I suspect we could get electricity production switched over to nuclear in less than a decade but I'm not sure how much less we could manage (even if we cut every corner four years would be pushing it). This one is worth a discussion by itself. Dwayne Andreas, former CEO of Archer Daniels Midland, ADM is one of the worst offenders in terms of subsidies for useless crap. has said, "There isn't one grain of anything in the world that is sold in a free market. Not one! The only place you see a free market is in the speeches of politicians." Pretty much true, though some markets are freer than others and some subsidies are worse than others (e.g. turning corn into SUV feed (as ADM does) is worse than just paying farmers not to grow anything). Whatever timeline you want to go on and whatever specifics you want to invoke, all the roads to a viable future lead finally to local self-sufficiency, ecological balance and economic sustainability rather than growing ourselves off the cliff. It is one thing we know from history that works. We know from science that ecological balance doesn't exist, creatures survive as best they can in whatever environment they find themselves in (Henry Gleason was right). Also when we look back at history at the kind of society you are saying we should become we do not find places that were nice to live in. If we are to have a better world we've got to continue economic growth (and given that the universe is infinite we don't have any limits to growth to worry about, maybe the big rip or heat death of the universe will do us in eventually but there might even be solutions to those problems). |
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;D
