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Post by David B. Benson on Jul 14, 2019 16:28:04 GMT 9.5
'Just a matter of when': the $20bn plan to power Singapore with Australian solar
Adam Morton
2019 Jul 13
The Guardian
From a large solar PV farm plus big battery, an underwater HVDC line snakes through the Indonesian archepelago to Singapore. This to replace some LNG.
At 3,800 km of cable, I estimate the losses at about 25%. Oh well, solar power is presumed inexpensive.
Two other schemes are mentioned while a professor is quoted. But somehow these large schemes often flounder for lack of financing; the money people find the power market too risky these days.
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Post by Roger Clifton on Jul 14, 2019 18:38:52 GMT 9.5
According to The Guardian article, "a 10-gigawatt-capacity array of panels will be spread across 15,000 hectares and be backed by battery storage to ensure it can supply power around the clock". To achieve that, the battery storage would have to have a capacity in excess of about 100 GWh. Seeing as the biggest battery in the world only has a capacity of 100 MWh, I hope that would-be investors notice the thousand-fold discrepancy in the salesman's spin before they hand over any cash.
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Post by Roger Clifton on Jul 15, 2019 9:48:43 GMT 9.5
From a large solar PV farm plus big battery, an underwater HVDC line snakes through the Indonesian archipelago to Singapore... At 3,800 km of cable, I estimate the losses at about 25%. What is the loss rate on standard submarine HVDC cable? The design of an aerial (suspended) HVDC cable would provide different constraints on the conductivity, so would it have a different loss rate? |
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Post by engineerpoet on Jul 15, 2019 11:13:01 GMT 9.5
For Singapore to rely on power over such a long, fragile path would involve insane amounts of risk.
The leaders of Singapore do not strike me as insane.
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Post by David B. Benson on Jul 15, 2019 13:45:17 GMT 9.5
For more modern UHVDC cable losses of 2.6% per 800 km are quoted. So including the conversion losses at each end, just 15% total loss.
For DC transmission there is no capacitance and so the same losses whether overland or underwater.
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Post by Roger Clifton on Jul 20, 2019 13:11:05 GMT 9.5
That comes out to 3.2% per 1000 km for undersea HVDC cable. It is impressive when compared to low voltage, AC distribution cables whose planning accepts losses of 5% per 100 km. Long distance, high-voltage AC is better but suffers radiation losses. I would have thought that a more feasible plan would put HVDC connections between each of the well-populated islands of Indonesia, of which there are many. The majority of these lie on the " Sunda Shelf". The Shelf extends west to Singapore and western Malaysia and east to Bali. It is separated from Australia by a subduction trench along the south and on the east by contorted ocean beds that constitute the Wallace Line. Indonesia is a world-rank exporter of coal and natural gas. Predictably, there is strong opposition to nuclear. Either way, it would make sense for Indonesia to generate and sell electricity to Singapore, Malaysia and the Philippines through such cables. |
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Post by David B. Benson on Oct 22, 2020 11:42:42 GMT 9.5
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Post by David B. Benson on Nov 14, 2020 12:19:46 GMT 9.5
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Post by David B. Benson on Sept 21, 2021 2:25:28 GMT 9.5
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Post by huon on Sept 24, 2021 5:44:48 GMT 9.5
(At DBB's request I have consolidated two similar threads here. -- The Janitor)
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Post by Roger Clifton on Oct 3, 2021 14:55:01 GMT 9.5
Building an Australia-Singapore power link In a recent announcement, the same Sun Cable project is being expanded to "20 gigawatts for the solar component of the Northern Territory proposal, and 36-42GWh of battery storage" with clearance for "4,000km undersea cable – destined for Singapore – through Indonesian waters." In a nominally pure solar contract equipped with that much storage, the project would be in a position to guarantee to supply 1 GW of on-demand fossil-free electricity to Singapore. Looking at the map, the reader may be puzzled as to why the world's largest solar farm is to be built in such a remote place. The power lines would have to be built 715 km to Darwin on the coast, and a "4,000km undersea cable – destined for Singapore – through Indonesian waters", which are shallow and heavily trafficked. That cable would first have to cross or swerve around the 5 km deeps of the avalanche-ridden Timor Trench. One might ask, surely the solar farm could be built where the desert reaches the sea near Broome, some 1500 km to the west and that much closer to Singapore? Thence the cable could travel safely across the abyssal plains south of Indonesia and only cross through the Sunda Strait to Singapore. The location begins to make more sense when the map shows it is in the Beetaloo Basin, a major new gas field currently in the initial stages of development. Before explorers can contract to pipe out their first gigawatt of pipeline-quality gas, they would be able to provide hundreds of megawatts of raw gas from test wells. Raw gas includes variable dilutions of nitrogen and CO2, as well as pipeline-hostile contaminants such as water, hydrogen and H2S – but such raw gas could be fed directly into nearby gas turbines to create electric power on demand. With this connection, the two major projects could grow up side-by-side. The contract to supply Singapore would almost certainly include a clause allowing gas backup to ensure on-demand supply, so as long as the gasfield develops steadily, the power in the cable can be reliably and progressively increased. Availability of gas would allow delay in securing the capital, too. With the solar generation costing 2 $/W of capacity and batteries at 1 $/Wh, a pure solar plant would cost out at 40 G$ for the generators and ~40 G$ for the storage. Four AU$ is about three US$, but 60 G$(US) is still a lot of capital to raise. Almost certainly the power would be marketed in Singapore as pure solar, but complete installation of the capital-intensive solar components in remote Australia might be delayed without affecting the contract, as long as the gas component was kept discrete. ...That's another advantage of remoteness. |
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Post by David B. Benson on Sept 12, 2023 8:51:32 GMT 9.5
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Post by cyrilr on Sept 19, 2023 0:43:41 GMT 9.5
What a silly idea. You don't put in 4000 km cables unless all other options are exhausted.
Singapore has good sunshine year round, and could easily generate solar power itself, by means of floating PV plants. Or get it from Malaysia or Indonesia.
And an even better plan would be for Singapore to purchase several Thorcon Isles. They can be moored offshore if no near shore space is available.
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Post by David B. Benson on Sept 19, 2023 3:02:22 GMT 9.5
But from the linked article the Singaporese want this and more. |
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Post by cyrilr on Sept 19, 2023 20:30:56 GMT 9.5
But from the linked article the Singaporese want this and more. They’re rich. Rich people do all manner of silly things and want even more silly things. Things that are not of much consequence on global primary energy supplies, or of use to the world’s poor. |
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